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| Msg#: 203
Date: 05-10-96
From: Little Egypt #40 Subj: Many Years Later |
While going through an old trunk, she runs across a scroll, half eaten by silverfish (otherwise known as strakh-biters). Ancient Egypt unrolls the scroll. "Ah yes, I remember those times," she smiles...
(it's a good thing she can remember them, for the ink is all faded now, and the silverfish seem to have eaten off half the runes...)
Something about a Boys'Club, or was that a Tree House. Anyways, didn't it have a sign on it that said "No Dragons Allowed" ? What childish folly, she thinks to herself. If wrinkles weren't included, maturity would be welcome...
She gazes off into the blue, and resumes her sweeping.
| Msg#: 204
Date: 05-11-96
From: Kwangpard's Dolorous Folly Subj: Re: Many Years Later |
I think your insinuation is pretty silly, but I'm going to give it a serious reply anyway.
Is this an elitist storyboard? Yes, definitely. The most active, able and creative participants will naturally control the story. To demand otherwise is to ask the intelligent and creative to limit their intelligence and creativity-and we all know where that leads...
Is the elitism gender related? Definitely not. You may note that, of the three people we've snubbed, two are male, or profess to be.
I personally could care less about the orientation of Dragon Sorceress's plumbing. The main reason she's having trouble is that her concept of the milieu is wrong. Despite its baroque and archaic elements, Sirene is a science-fiction setting, and magic does not work in it. The same goes for Darkwalker's concept of a mystic time-traveling force of order. (Cyan the Great, of course, has proved elsewhere to be a complete waste of time.)
The SDC has informed me that, while chatting with DS, he suggested that she read the story we're basing all this on, Vance's _The Moon Moth,_ as she would thereby be entertained by an excellent piece of fiction and also have a better handle on what we're trying to do here. DS replied that she did not wish to invest the effort. That is her decision, of course-but if you don't find the Sirenese milieu interesting enough to even read the source, a story of a mere forty pages in length, then why bother to join a storyboard dedicated to it?
If DS is that intent on portraying the second half of her handle, she should request the SDC to start another storyboard for herself and like-minded folks. If you don't like the way we're handling this storyboard, start one of your own. You will be in perfect control of it-as we are in control of this one. How much fairer do you want it to be?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.1
| Msg#: 205
Date: 05-12-96
From: Little Egypt #40 Subj: Fairness |
Jeez this post of yours is too long to quote.
So, in all fairness to your elitism, I can lampoon it all I want. Whether that means I have control over anything depends on how much I succeed in getting your goat.
Which I obviously have.
LE
| Msg#: 206
Date: 05-12-96
From: Little Egypt #40 Subj: Ahhh, here's a cute little quote. |
>permitted an abandoned shack on a raft. There is no medium of
>exchange on Sirene; the single and sole currency is strakh..."
>"Masks are worn at all times, in accordance with the philosophy
>that a man should not be compelled to use a similitude foisted upon
>him by factors beyond his control; that he should be at
>liberty to choose that semblance most consonant with his
>strakh. In the civilized areas of Sirene - which is to say
>the Titanic littoral - a man literally never shows his face;
Hmmm, I see a lot of "man" in there, but nary a woman. So, since this author of yours has neglected to include us, what, shall we do, pray tell? Go our own way and make something up ourselves?
Hey, that's not a bad idea. I do that all the time in real life.
and my way, little man, is to make parodies. Plenty of Strakh in that, eh, what?
Little Egypt
Got my mask, got my veil
I'm all tuned up and ready to Wail
Gimme an S
Gimme a T
Gimme an R
Gimme an A
Gimme a K
Gimme an H
Whazzat spell?
Yaaaaaaaaay STRAKH!!
| Msg#: 207
Date: 05-12-96
From: The Welcome Rain #18 Subj: "If you don't have anything better to do, don't do it here" |
(Sign seen in a gunshop in north Texas. Semantically, it's an interesting statement.)
>So, in all fairness to your elitism, I can lampoon it all I want.
What have you "lampooned"? All you did was post a bullshit insinuation about our supposed sexism. Believe me, we'd welcome a talented female participant here. DS is going her own way, with the support of whoever will participate in her storyline. Are you willing to do that? If not, it doesn't say much for your faith in her talent, and you're clearly acknowledging your poor opinion of her writing. Either that, or you're admitting your own lack of talent-hardly a stunning revelation for those of us who must wade through your self-righteous crap.
>Whether tha
>means I have control over anything depends on how much I succeed in
getting
>your goat.
>
>Which I obviously have.
Great win-win logic. If he hadn't bothered to reply to your stupid accusations (and indeed they deserved no reply), you'd probably be crowing over your victory. Since he did have the courtesy to address a dunce like you, you're "gotten his goat." That's one characteristic you and OvE share: You love to waste the time of users whose time and talent are worthy of better things, unlike yours.
THE WELCOME RAIN
| Msg#: 208
Date: 05-12-96
From: The Welcome Rain #18 Subj: Shrill Hysterical Pseudo-Feminism |
>Hmmm, I see a lot of "man" in there, but nary a woman.
To state what would be obvious to anyone but you, the term "man" in this context is clearly a generic reference to anyone human. At the time Vance wrote the story, this was acceptable usage; only later did hopped-up morons like you demand "he/she", "his/her", or the generic use of the feminine pronoun.
Jack Vance was one of the first authors to feature women in central roles in his books. _The Space Pirates_, later published as _The Five Gold Bands_, is one good example. He did a lot more for the cause of womankind than you ever could, old lady.
>So, since this author
>of yours has neglected to include us, what, shall we do, pray tell?
Go our own
>way and make something up ourselves?
Go your own way? Sounds great to me. And while you're at it, why not clutter up some other sub with your worthless whining crap?
>and my way, little man, is to make parodies. Plenty of Strakh in that,
eh,
>what?
Go over to OvE's house and consult that overused dictionary of his for the meaning of the word "parody." You've done nothing of the sort, lacking even the journeyman (oh, excuse the fuck out of me, journeyPERSON) skill of imitating someone else's style. Much less the ability to come up with anything good on your own.
SDC: You'll probably want to move this to The Docks. Could you do the same with the whole thread? LE's complaints have little relevance to the storyline here.
THE WELCOME RAIN
| Msg#: 209
Date: 05-13-96
From: The Sea-dragon Conqueror Subj: Abusing the System |
¯ SDC: You'll probably want to move this to The Docks. Could you
do the sam
¯with the whole thread? LE's complaints have little relevance
to the storyline
¯here.
"You are skilled and punctilious, my son."
Your request is within the terms I mentioned, just barely. If Little Egypt had been just a touch less insulting in her posts, it would have been your messages, and not hers, which were moved. Nonetheless, you DID escalate the situation, probably just to make sure the whole thread would be moved.
However, I have noted the implied disrespect. I do not compel the users ehre to respect me; respect must come freely, or not at all. But you may expect me to treat all your requests in the future with great care, on the assumption that they, too, are attempts to take advantage of the system.
The Sea-Dragon Conqueror
| Msg#: 211
Date: 05-13-96
From: Ost Von Eden #31 Subj: That's Entertainment! |
>you're "gotten his goat." That's one characteristic you and OvE share:
You
>love to waste the time of users whose time and talent are worthy of
better
>things, unlike yours.
Well, it Can Be pretty entertaining......<G>
_=lowtech=_ We got better Thingies
| Msg#: 213
Date: 05-13-96
From: Little Egypt #40 Subj: Plenty of Strakh |
Hmmmm lemme see now.
You and your buds like to imitate Jack Vance.
You also believe yourselves more talented than those of us who choose not to imitate Jack, 'cause we'd rather invent our own stuff.
So what you're saying is that those who imitate have more talent than those who choose to be original.
Hmmm. Great concept. Sounds kinda Low Tech...
LE
BTW, maybe Vance means both sexes when he says "man", but have you ever
read Ursula LeGuin? You can't take the man for granted anymore, Rain. In
today's scifi/fantasy, it just might mean a whole planet-full of men.
| Msg#: 215
Date: 05-14-96
From: The Welcome Rain #18 Subj: Why, you son of a Blish! |
My reaction to Little Egypt's insinuations was genuine anger, and not a sham. I despise her assumption of moral superiority merely because she is a member of the unfair sex. It is, to be sure, the only basis on which she can claim superiority of any kind, but it's still bullshit.
THE WELCOME RAIN
| Msg#: 216
Date: 05-14-96
From: The Welcome Rain #18 Subj: What a bunch of crap. |
>You and your buds like to imitate Jack Vance.
Pardon me, ma'am, but it's about time someone shoved the hard dick of reality up the asshole of your mind. Well, why not? You claim we're a bunch of evil domineering males. Everyone line up to watch the cyber-rape!
Vance's style is inimitable; none of us would venture to write a pastiche of the master. The closest we come is the occasional homage to a Vancian stylistic quirk, which is totally appropriate given that we're setting a story in a world he created. We are considerably expanding the concept, however, as you would realize if you had ever gotten off your dead, middle-aged ass, abandoned your empty easel, and read "The Moon Moth."
The same cannot be said for your own pathetic attempts at irreverence. The most one can say in their favor is that they're usually short and often not seriously meant. When you get self-righteous, your writing gets even worse.
>You also believe yourselves more talented than those of us who choose
not to
>imitate Jack, 'cause we'd rather invent our own stuff.
We don't mind you inventing your own stuff one bit. What we do mind, as I think a real artist would understand, is the quality of what's being submitted. A collaborative effort requires that the participants acknowledge certain implicit rules in what they are creating, otherwise the result is likely to be mismatched garbage.
Anyway, DS is going her own way, without any interference from us. I notice that you didn't (probably couldn't) respond to my point about backing up your mouth with some support for her storyline. Since nobody here is stopping her from doing her own thing except for people who won't put their effort where their mouth is, you should be lambasting yourself, not us.
>BTW, maybe Vance means both sexes when he says "man", but have you
ever read
>Ursula LeGuin? You can't take the man for granted anymore, Rain. In
today's
>scifi/fantasy, it just might mean a whole planet-full of men.
Who ever said otherwise, clueless one? Your point was that Vance's use of the male pronoun as a generic reference to the Sirenese was somehow a proof of (gasp) sexism! In the George Carlin system of classifying losers, you'd definitely qualify for a "fuckin' stupid" and a "fulla shit."
And Ursula LeGuin sucks. She's ten parts hothouse flower and three parts boring fugelPERSON for her own dumb agenda. If you're going to cite feminist sci-fi authors, why not mention Margaret Atwood? But probably Anne McCaffrey is more your speed.
THE WELCOME RAIN
_/lowbrow\_ If you hang around with people who like you, make sure it
isn't the Manson Family.
| Msg#: 218
Date: 05-15-96
From: The Sea-dragon Conqueror Subj: You're right. |
¯ You credit me with far more deviousness than I actually possess.
I have
¯noted the implied *respect*, and disavow the disrespect you impute
to me.
You're right. You're not devious at all. You're a lunatic. "The hard dick of reality"? I know we're on The Docks, but I think you could have kept that one in your pants. You, sir, are no gentleman.
¯ Fine. Whatever. But just one thing: Do you always get this mad
when
¯someone asks you to follow through on a promise?
No, just when someone is trying to take unfair advantage of the system. I concede that you hadn't intended to do so. I will even concede that Little Egypt's posts would have been moved here anyway, since they were complaints about the conduct of a subboard. I know, I know, I'm only supposed to do that when the moderator asks me, but right now SISR has no moderator. I should probably go ahead and give KDF the nod, since he's effectively moderating the place now. Consider this a statement of official BBS policy. (trumpets)
The Sea-Dragon Conqueror
| Msg#: 219
Date: 05-15-96
From: Little Egypt #40 Subj: Snobbery and elitism |
In the art world there is plenty of it. And as a visual artist whose skills are quite advanced and admittedly admired, I won't tolerate put-downs of beginners or of those whose skills will never match mine.
I feel the same way about writing. Never mind that my writing abilities will probably never match those of my visual arts abilities.
So, wherever I find elitism and snobbery I shall continue to squawk and mock. Especially if the elitist snob happens to be talented. Then I'll really pour it on.
Little Egypt
| Msg#: 221
Date: 05-15-96
From: Clytemnestra #9 Subj: Give me a k-n-e-e-j-e-r-k r-e-a-c-t-i-o-n |
>Hmmm, I see a lot of "man" in there, but nary a woman. So, since this
author
>of yours has neglected to include us, what, shall we do, pray tell?
Go our own
>way and make something up ourselves?
Admittedly, Vance doesn't have much about women in his novels. What
is there, isn't much. But, Atwood doesn't have that much flattering to
say about men in her novels. Should men stop reading Atwood? Should women
stop reading Vance? Of course not! If the writing is really good (and believe
me, Vance is much, much better than Atwood ever will be) then it shouldn't
matter if this sex, or that sex is treated fairly. It's all in the skill
of the writer.
| Msg#: 222
Date: 05-15-96
From: Clytemnestra #9 Subj: Vance, Atwood |
I'd just like to add that I do actually like Atwood a great deal.
| Msg#: 223
Date: 05-15-96
From: Dragon Sorceress #37 Subj: Truce post:Gotta post it here because I can't move it.. |
>member of the unfair sex. It is, to be sure, the only basis on which she can
^^^^^^^^^
Pardon,senior:what do you mean by that?No challenge in this,no spark of anger,just a question.
<urg.Sorta makesya wish that this kind of things wasn't on the Docks so you
wouldn't be an immediate target for flames.Oh,well..>
And was it just an insult aimed at LE or your opinion?Just wondering...
DS,trapped in hostile territory <sigh><dunno bout "trapped"..>
Why Jonny can't Smurf
| Msg#: 224
Date: 05-15-96
From: The Welcome Rain #18 Subj: The Unfair Sex |
>Pardon,senior:what do you mean by that?No challenge in this,no spark
of
>anger,just a question.
Just a Bierce reference. I should point out that I call men "the other unfair sex."
THE WELCOME RAIN
| Msg#: 225
Date: 05-15-96
From: The Welcome Rain #18 Subj: Pretentious idiot |
>As an artist I feel the responsibility to mock snobbery and elitism
wherever I
>find it.
Ooh, ooh, she's an artist. Everybody stand back!
For "snobbery and elitism" read "taste and judgment."
Or at least when these thigns are applied to her buddies' work.
Let's be honest, LE. If you really wanted to support
DS's development as a writer, you'd provide her with some constructive
criticism at the very least, and some co-writing support on the SISR as
well. The fact that you're not doing either of these things indicates
a deep-down contempt for her as a person. Ironically, I'm actually
offering her more respect, since I'm assuming that her errors are amenable
to correction. You have apparently given up on that.
Are you defending DS? Or are you really defending
your irretrievably lost youth? You know you wouldn't pass for twenty
in the worst light, and you know your life isn't going to get any better.
It's all downhill from here.
THE WELCOME RAIN
| Msg#: 226
Date: 05-15-96
From: Dragon Sorceress #37 Subj: O.k. |
>RE: Truce post:Gotta post it here because I can't move it..
>BY: Dragon Sorceress #37
>
>>Pardon,senior:what do you mean by that?No challenge in this,no spark
of
>>anger,just a question.
>
> Just a Bierce reference. I should point out that
I call men "the other
>unfair sex."
>
>THE WELCOME RAIN
Just checking.Didn't wanna be flamed,but I had to ask.
<grin>And I'm the kinda person who would wear a shirt that
says "Yeah,I'm a girl and I'll still kick your but." That conception of
boys as always stronger&better can get to a person,..
-----
It's not a poem,it's a WORD!!" -me,of
course...<grin>..darn typos...